HELP PLEASE! Embarrassing recall problem ....

[Teamsqueak]

Hello again everyone....

Georgia is continuing to recover well from her speying beg. of September but we have noticed a bit of a problem these past few weeks with her recall and wonder if anyone can throw some light on it?

Her recall has always been good when there are no distractions around (same for most dogs?) but whenever she sees another dog then if she's off-lead, she will 'lock-on' to the other dog and use a combination of commando crawl and running/stopping until she comes nose to nose with the other dog - introduces herself and then comes back to us quite happily.

However, since she's been speyed... she streaks off to meet the other dog(s) and will NOT come back for love nor money/squeaky toy/food/all the enthusiastic waving/dog whistling (hmmm - airhorn??) etc that is recommended in situations like this to attract their attention etc.

She doesn't even look behind her - totally ignores us.

Even when we finally catch up with her, she'll run off after the other dog and their owner if we don't get the lead on her quick enough to 'persuade' her to come with us and will just leave you stood there like a lemons

Fortunately (or should that be 'not') we know most other owners and they and their dogs are used to Georgia's meet'n'greet mode but I am painfully aware that it's not very responsible for me to let my dog off if I know she won't come back if there are other dogs around - especially how she is at the momeny.

I'm starting to think it's me and am really loathe to let the little madam off-lead as yesterday she ran off to say 'hello' to a grumpy collie and his owner who ended up holding onto her dog to stop him snapping at Georgia and at the same time, holding onto my dog to stop her running off again (the shame of it...)

I've read some other posts about working with the long-lead/extending leads etc. and we have done work with this in the past but ever since we took her on in February, she's always been crazy when she sees another dog but now it's gotten worse.

Her previous owner said that she has always been like that (why???)

Tonight she spotted a horse and rider and ran off to 'play' with the horse Thankfully I know the owner to pass the time of day with, but it could have been my dog with a couple of horse shoe-prints on her for her pains or even worse - the horse could have been spooked and thrown the rider.

Would REALLY REALLY appreciate some help on this one.

Shamefully

Ellie and Georgia

[Marion]

I am devoting time to catching up on all forum members who did not receive replies to their post.

I really apologise that your post seems to have been overlooked Should you require any advice or just want to chat, you will receive a better response I promise you. Hope you and all your family are well and take this opportunity to wish you Seasonal Greetings.

marion

[Teamsqueak]

(Just having accidentally deleted a long post that I'd written in reply (bleep-bleep-bleep), I really hope I don't do it again this time...)

Right - hello again Marian and thank you for picking up my lost post!

We use a Gencon to stop Georgia pulling so much when out for 'normal' street-work walks but when she's not got that on she still pulls like a train.

We are doing long-line work at the weekends when there's two of us around as I can't hold her on my own - think rocket-propelled black lab streaking across a field followed by mud-ski-ing owner....

I'm no lightweight but don't have the strength in my arms to successfully hold back a 75lb labrador in full flight (!)

I've tried standing on the lead when she sees another dog and gets excited, after getting her to 'sit' or 'down' , but she takes off with such force that I've fallen over and lost her a couple of times (oh the shame). The old slip-collar where you can give a 'tug' to stop the pulling is all twisted because she seems immune to the lack of oxygen and sounding like Darth Vader so I don't tend to use that so much as a result.

Ironic that our first dog went crazy to attack other dogs whenever he saw them whereas this one goes just as mad to say hello!

I've been reading several of the alternative dog training books to try and get more of an idea what signals I'm sending out (hey - do what you want, you're SO boring and not worthy of my attention etc. etc) but we are trying to find something that means more to her than running off when she sees another dog.

She's been with us 10 months now so I would hope that she has bonded with us (?) as in all other aspects, she's great and a good doggy-ambassador apart from when she goes out....

Any suggestions are always appreciated as usual!

ATVB to you and yours as well

Elle and Georgia

(PS - love the new additions to the smilies!)

[Archie]

Hi,
I missed this one as well. So if i can indulge you for a mo
How does she walk to heel indoors and around the garden?
What is a gencon?
How often do you go out for a walk?
How was she socialised and how long for?
And can you give us some background into the home environment?
From your post, she seems in control of the walk and not responding to you, therefore not focussed on you. How did you proof the recall in the big wide world. Does she respond to recall at home?
The above might give us a clue about advice.
HTH
A

[Teamsqueak]

Hello there Archie

Thanks for your reply!

Brief background - Georgia was a rescue dog, she'd been owned from a pup by one family but due to family problems spent alot of time going from kennels or to different family members and the owner after much angst decided to put her up for rehoming because the dog was suffering. A friend knew that we were after another dog and so put us in touch with the family and so we happily took her on/in back in February the day before she went into the Dog's Trust. (We had recently been forced to rehome a rescue dog that we had taken on several months earlier because of severe and unworkable behaviour that he had and our lack of experience wasn't doing him or us any favours (see previous posts re. dog agressive rescue dog))

We have limited contact with the original owner but she did say that Georgia was well-socialised as a puppy as lots of their friends and family had dogs and got on well with other dogs and people. I suspect that constant changes of homes affected her socialisation later on? (not that I'm an expert!!) as it still seems like everytime she sees another dog she gets SO excited you'd think she'd never seen one before.

She will be 3 next February so although she's no longer a puppy she is still young-ish.

Her original owner also said that Georgia was 'stubborn but good-natured' (agree fully with that!)

A gencon aka 'gentle leader' or figure of eight lead that goes over the nose and back of head. We tried a halti but she kept escaping from that - we're not as gormless as it comes across I hope (!) just a bit misguided and willing to be told even if we don't like what we hear!

I'm the main dog-walker - we go out for walks twice a day, every day, regardless of the weather - a mixture of pavement but mainly open countryside (yes - there's still some left...) and we have relatives with dogs that we take Georgia to see regularly. She's just as OTT with dogs that she's already met.

Home environment - I currently don't work so am at home the most. Two teenage boys - one works part-time, the other is SEN but not a danger to the dog and DH is home evenings and weekends!

She does tend to follow me around alot if it's just me at home and will lay where she can see you if she's not in her bed, but not in the way. She doesn't try to get through the doors before you and will wait. We also make sure we greet each other when we come in before we make a fuss of the dog (as hard as that always is!)

If you call her at home, she will come to you from any room - if she's outside in the garden, again she will come if called. If anyone walks past she will shoot out and bark at them briefly through the gate but will come when called.

She passed her bronze kennel club training back in the summer but we were unable to pursue the silver due to relocation of the dog school out of the county! (maybe it was a 'hint'...)

How did you proof the recall in the big wide world

I'm not quite sure what you mean re. that? If we go out and there's no other dog around or squirrel/rabbit (ah-hem) then she will come back when called. When you let her off the lead, she will run off a short distance but then will come back instantly if you call her. If she sees another dog, then that's it - total ignore until she's met the dog and then will act as if nothing has happened.

We were out this morning playing fetch in a field and she came back every single time whether I gave her a treat or not but there was no-one else around which was unusual for around here.

Hope this will make sense - anything else you need to know then please ask!

Regards

Elle & Georgia

[Archie]

Hi Teamsqueak.
She sounds like a gem. don't worry to much about her background, she's obviously been around people and dogs enough to be familiar with them and interact with them. However socialisation is a different thing altogether. Socialisaton is getting the dog familiar and habituated to everything and anything including other dogs and how to behave around them. Getting dogs socialised is never to late, but will take longer the older the dog is.

Proofing = Here is an area that some owners don't always take seriously. They train the dog at home to be really obedient 100%. They then believe that their work has been done. However when they take the dog out into the big wide world the dog has problems generalising the command. Proofing the command is basically training the dog to ignore the distraction and is the MAJOR part of training. It is hard work and includes putting your dog in all sorts of situations that it is likely to come across everyday and situations in which they have to comply with your command. For this it is best to attend a well run dog class, so that you can train your dog with loads of distractions around. Recall can be taught in situations that get more and more difficult. Like other dogs, people, rabbits and birds.
This is what I mean by proofing. It is proving that your commands are heard and obeyed every time and no matter what is going on at the time.

So why does she come back to you when there is no-one else in the field, because your the only game in town at that time and as soon as something more interesting comes along its bye bye. Believe me your not on your own, I have been taking my boy to dog class over the last few weeks in order to crack this and this is because he failed to recall from another dog when I wanted him to. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. And to be honest trying to train this in a park with lots of other dogs is in my opinion useless. The beauty about dog class is that you can control the situation. to begin with. For example, have the other dog sat quietly and on lead and not running around, make sure you are close to her when you recall her. Steadily increase distance, reward everytime she gets it right, don't reward when she gets it wrong. (you can reduce and evetually drop rewards later) Steadily increase the number of dogs. The dogs should be quiet and on lead. When you have cracked it, so she is returning to you everytime, increase the difficulty by letting one dog off the lead and let them have a sniff, stay close and recall. she should come, if not then go back a step. Eventually you should have a load of dogs milling around and then you should be able to recall her. Once this is done in class you take it outside and start from scratch. With one dog on lead and quiet and increase the difficulty. This part should go a lot quicker. Once you have explained this to a good trainer they will understand what you require. They may suggest 1-2-1 training and use their own dogs to set up the situation or invite you to an intermediate class with other well behaved dogs. To give you an idea of cost, my dog class costs £10 per session.

if you can't find a trainer in your area. Speak with your doggy friends and set up the situations your self. I'm sure they will help.

So what are the other things you can do..........

DO NOT recall her when she is sniffing other dogs or otherwise distracted. all that does is teach her to ignore the recall whistle/command.
Walk in the opposite direction and if neccessary hide. (whilst keeping an eye on her, but don't let her see you looking, you have to remain non-chalant) She will eventually wake up and discover your not there and go into panic mode. She will find you.
Never never never chase after her, she will think this is a game and it is, but it is one you will never win. She can run faster than you and once she knows the secret that humans can't catch dogs. You will have difficulty.
Only recall her when she is bounding towards you so that she gets associated with the return to you with the recall whistle. This includes when she is retrieving. As soon as she's picked up the thing and turns towards you, blow the recall whistle every time. Fall on the floor make funny noises have treats ready, heaps loads of praise, treat furiously with tasty snacks. The whistle will come to mean. FOOD. PRAISE. AFFECTION. GAMES. much more interesting than a smelly dog.
You have to be more interesting than other dogs. Loads and loads of games and treats when she is recalling correctly. Includes in the house.
Put a long lead on her and if neccessary pull her towards you blowing the recall whistle. When she's in fornt of you treat furiously.
Don't speak or do anything when she is behaving badly, if you do you are reinforcing her behaviour, better to ignore her and walk on leaving her behind.
You can also try the about walk. Let her off lead as soon as she goes in one direction you take off in the other, when she runs past you turn and walk the other way and keep doing it, you will notice that the distance becomes less and less. Turn now and again and face her as she comes towards you and blow the recall whistle. Once again loads of praise, treats, funny sounds. This can take a month and needs to be done in an area with no distractions.
This is also true of the lunging at other dogs when on lead. Go to dog class and teach good manners in a controlled environment, then take it outside. Meanwhile correct her with a tug of the lead and an abrupt sound AH AH. let the lead go loose. Don't get into a pulling match. Don't wait until you are right up next to the dog, as soon as you see another dog and she seen it, correct her with a tug and AH AH. This way she will get focus back on you. when she gets focus back on you reward with praise or treat.
Your trainer might advise no walks until she is obedient in class and then proofed outside, when they are happy then they might let her off lead. If she doesn't recall, they will take a step backwards.
Believe me dog class is well worth the money. Check out the trainer and make sure they are competant and qualified.
HTH

A

just an afterthought, I mention treats a lot, this is only to reward the good behaviour and will eventually be phased out. If treating a lot, do not feed the dog as much, balance the treats and food so that the dog is not being overfed. You can use the dog food as treats of course. Mine is partial to broccoli.

[Marion]

Archie

First the Gencon or any other headcollar or harness is designed to help you control behaviour but does nothing to cure or correct it. I have never found that any of these popular shop bought headcollars do much to control a dog pulling on the lead. In fact many of them either fit badly or can be easily broken. The only on I would recommend is the Dogmatic...a leather and brass headcollar that comes in many sizes and can be adjusted to fit any dog. See:

http://www.dogmatic.org.uk/

If you want your dog to come back to you then you need start training the recall again as though you have just got the dog. It helps to change the recall command word. Arm yourself with a treat that she has never had before. Some really spicy salami or hot dog sausage. Practise the recall in the home and garden and when out on a walk... do not let her off lead at all. Keep her on lead indoors as you busy around doing housework. If she is asleep in her bed call her to you. When you are half way up the stairs call her to you. Always have a treat to hand and give her lots of excited praise. Give her the recall command when she least expects it so that she becomes accustomed to coming back to you no matter where she is or what she is doing.

Forget about her off lead exercise for now. Instead do lots of training and play in the home and garden followed by a short on lead walk or drive to a busy shopping area and walk her around. Keep her with you as much as possible even if you are just making a short car journey or popping to the shop. At the same time make sure she has time out on her own. If you use a crate then put her in it or shut her in the kitchen. You may be at home all day now but what if you want to return to work? Dogs can quickly become used to a set routine of their owners being round them all the time. I dislike routines and prefer to keep the dog guessing as to when it is going to be fed, walked, played with or cuddled.

Based on your posts I would suggest that Georgia's problem lies in the fact that she is taking control in other areas besides the recall. She is not respecting you as her leader hence the poor recall and the rushing out and barking. When she meets other dogs it should be on your terms and not hers. Keep her on lead...do not allow her to control how and when she will interact with other dogs. If you visit friends who also have a dog you decide when Gerorgia greets them. You tell her to sit by your side and then she stays in that position until she has calmed down and can play nicely. If she pulls then make her lie down and put your foot on the lead about three inches from her collar and ignore her.

You say:

I've been reading several of the alternative dog training books to try and get more of an idea what signals I'm sending out (hey - do what you want, you're SO boring and not worthy of my attention etc. etc) but we are trying to find something that means more to her than running off when she sees another dog.

Well done for learning as much as you can about body signals. I suggest you read:

Calming Signals, "What Your Dog Tells You" by Turid Rugaas or

"On Talking Terms With Dogs" by Turid Rugaas

http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/item--O ... rms---dogs

"Finding something that means more to her than running off" quite simply the answer is YOU...Respecting your authority and obeying you is the only reason why Georgia should return to you. The only way you will achieve this is with training. You need to look to other areas in which you can see that Georgia is making her own decisions. If she obeys the "sit" command then up the anti and demand a perfect sit or a rapid response sit. She will only give you what you demand and if a sloppy sit is accepted then a sloppy sit is what you will get. Likewise, if you accept a slow recall or a hit and miss recall then that is what you get.

I want you to be firmer overall with this dog. She has bonded with you but possibly because of her easy going, friendly nature you have not been firm enough with her. Train her on the basis that you are the boss and from now on she does as she is told. The food bowl is your greatest training tool. Use it to your advantage. Put her in another room and call her for her food. When she races up to you tell her to lie down and stay and then walk a few paces away. If she gets up or moves at all put the bowl back on the work surface and walk out of the room. Do not acknowledge her at all. After a few seconds return and ask her to lie down and stay. Pick up the bowl and walk across the room. Put the bowl on the floor reminding her to stay. If she is behaving well then call her to her food. It is little actions like this that will make her realise that you are to be obeyed.

Change all her routines. Vary her mealtimes even if only by half an hour. If she comes to you in the evening and pushes her head on to your lap immediately tell her to go lie down in her bed. Keep your voice low and firm. If she doesn't obey you get up and remove her from the room. Again this small action sends out a big message...You are the boss

To summerise:

Start as if today is the first time you have seen the dog and begin training again.

Set some firm house rules... no matter what she has been allowed to do up till now, today is day 1. This dog does not deserve treats or luxuries. No getting on furniture. NO toys, treats, chews or anything else unless she has earned them. Go round the house picking up anything that is hers and put it all away. Georgia is going to work for her treats. Only good behaviour gets reward

Train her with firmness and consistency..no good allowing her to ignore your commands one day then expect her to obey you the next. If you cannot follow through with a command then don't give one. Calling "Come Georgia Come" as she disappears over the horizon puts the ball in her court. She has heard you and she chooses to ignore you.

Do not contemplate using a flexi lead. A flexi lead will not cure her bad behaviour it will just give her even more freedom to get to where she wants to be. You say she is pulling you along now...believe me on a flexi lead you will be flying through the air faster than an air force jet.....

Go easy on the attention you give her making sure that she has time out. You control how much fuss she gets and when she gets it.

Make sure all the family work together on this. Write all the rules down and stick it on the fridge so that everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. ALL family members must be firm with Georgia.

This may all seem a tad harsh but you will be amazed how quickly Georgia will begin to respond to the new regime and will come back to you because being obedient is so ingrained in her that it becomes an automatic response.

marion

[Teamsqueak]

Thank you both very much - to Archie and Marion for your advice re. Georgia.

(Good job we all have time off over the holidays as it looks like we're going to need it .....)

I'm printing off what you've said so that it's in hard copy on the fridge and there can be no arguing over how to interpret what we need to do as a family!

I will let you know we get on in few weeks as like you said, it's changing the way we do things and putting into practice the things that we haven't been doing.

Good point about getting the dog 'unused' to a routine Marion - our circumstances are changing next year (like alot of people no doubt) so that's something I'd not really thought about that much.

Thank you, again, for your learned advice and experience!

Take care and ATVB to you both over the holiday season.

Elle and Georgia

[Marion]

Your welcome Ellie and and Seasonal Greetings to you and all your family.

marion

[Archie]

Hi Teamsqueak,
Don't get disheartened, Marions advice is good stuff. It happens to us all. I've just had my lad out and got back. So i'll give you a resume of what occured.
Went across the 1st field off lead, no problem - got to a field with horses- recalled, came to heel put lead on. Went across the horses field to heel no problem. Got to the lane, off lead again - quartering down the lane (going side to side) turning on 2 pips left and right, returning to cover ground brilliantly, car came along 1 long pip on the whislte - sit and stay, brilliant - car goes past - told to get on - starts hunting again - another car comes - 1 long pip sit and stay, brilliant- car goes past - told to get on and start hunting again - went through the hedge to the other side - couldn't see him - recall (3 pips) came back to heel and walks to heel off lead - told to get on starts hunting again. I'm having a good day. Took him to the training field to do some retrieves. Labrador pup in field, off he goes, no problem, let them have a little play (i know the owner) - my boy looks up at me so i recall. NO NOT THIS TIME MISTER. I'm staying over here - so i walk off and hide. (mind you the lab owner keeps throwing a ball and walking off in the other direction) no problem I'll sit here and wait. Finally he decides OH OH where is he - so come hurtling back as i recall. Send him for a retireve, NO decides I'll go for it but not bring it back, well half way any way, so i try another one with a ball, same thing, half way back. Okay, thats it then, on to lead, straight to the truck, straight in the truck, straight home, straight into the garden, no words, no eye contact nothing and he is still in the garden. He has jumped up at the back door a couple of times, but has been ignored.
So from high to low in 45 minutes - Thats the lovely thing about owning a pooch, its even lovelier if you own a spaniel like me. So back a step again, no more now until tomorrow and dog class, put him in a situation with dogs creating a lane and expect him to walk back to me through the lane of dogs without so much as a blink at any of them. i will probably do some recall practice around the house and reward if he gets to me in 3 seconds, if he doesn't he won't get rewarded.




A

[Teamsqueak]

Great to hear that even the 'expert' dogs have their off days as well, Archie

There's hope yet for the lesser mortals among us!!

One of the owners we meet occasionally has a young spaniel pup who he's training with a long-lead and a whistle. (Such a lovely 'waggy' tailed dog - just like Georgia!) He also recommended whistle training with our wilful young lady - we know that she has no hearing problems, but when we tried a few times she just ignored it despite giving lots of praise etc when she did come back? A case of getting the right pitch perhaps (!) (We were given an old 'Acme' dog whistle by my dad)

I would guess that I have to let Georgia off the lead indoors sometimes in order to do work on the recall? She was very confused with me taking her everywhere I went inside the house with her lead on (changing the beds isn't so exciting for a dog eh??)- she kept heading towards the front door and waiting for me to take her out! but joking aside, came and went exactly when instructed too (good girl!!)

I'm finding it a bit difficult to find games that will mentally challenge her - 'FIND' and playing ball indoors (naughty but driving rain forces indoor play) and putting a stuffed kong inside a big cardboard box full of newspapers for her to fathom out are about all I can come up with at the moment. I'd like to do some agility with her inside (like Hetty does) but don't really know where to start on that as fiscal expenditure is restricted at the moment .... Always the library (handy having a son who works in one eh!)

Hope you also have a productive and enjoyable holiday season with your 'lad'

Take care

Elle and Georgia

[Richard]

For Games you could try teaching tidy UP!

its just a fetching and droping excersise, start with toys or other things (chews/bones all to be found and then droped into the toy box.

you can the try scrunched up balls of paper into a litter bin, and then onto the rubbish and detriss that the kids leave every where into the houshold bin!!!

hey ive not managed to teach the humans here that one but i hold out beter hope for the dog


richard

[Archie]

Hi Teamsqueak,
I've still got the beligerent doggy since the last post. We had exactly the same thing on Sunday as we had on Friday. This is even after working with other dogs at class and recalling him away from them. Classmates think this is an extinction burst. (final bit of defiance) I hope they are right. We'll see today, we are changing some things around ( being unpredictable)
As for indoor games, how about teaching dance, try doing the twist --- stand the dog infront of you and have a treat in one of your hands, take the treat from the nose to the tail, the dog (hopefully) will follow the treat, as he does take the treat around his back side so he is doing 180 degrees turn and then bring the treat back to were his nose was, he should have turned 360 degrees. or full circle. Another one could be through your legs, in a figure of eight, or jumping over your outstretched leg, first one and then the other. Before you know it, you'll be on strictly come dancing for dogs, (Another TV idea) Were are those TV producers when you need them. That 2 idea's I've got for TV programmes. Any takers???

A

[Teamsqueak]

Thanks Archie and Richard for your ideas!

I hold out more hope for the dog than the kids (boys) tidying up anyday

Heck - she even goes to bed when I tell her to without arguing or talking back .....

Even after just a few days she's doing better BUT DH let her off lead when we were out at the weekend which threatened to undo the good work so far (ah-hem) but we didn't meet any other dogs (thankfully) so that was lucky (grrrr) So much for all sticking to the same plan.....

SCD for dogs would be great! Who would you have as the MC??! and what about the judges??

You obviously have a wasted talent there Archie!

Regards

Elle and Georgia

[Archie]

Hi Teamsqueak.
Keep plodding on, consistency is the key get that OH under control. My beligerent mutt is now back on song. Just got back with him from a brilliant training session with no problems at all. Kept him on lead for a while until i was sure he had got the message. A JRT came up to say hello and I wasn't allowing it. Put him behind me and stood facing the JRT, just to let him know, that my chap was not saying hello today. Owner was most polite. She couldn't understand why her dog was being so confident, apparently it usually runs a mile from people and dogs.
A little tip for you, when you meet other dogs on lead, do like I did, put the dog behind you and front the other dog and owner. Not in an aggresive way, just a confident way. Let your dog settle down. Tell the owner of the other dog what you are doing and why. When it's time to move off, move off backwards enticing your dog towards you, with a treat in hand, at the same time doing the recall either whistle or voice. Go backwards for 4/5 yards and then get her to sit up in front of you and treat. This is training her to move away from dogs and because of the reward should shape a behaviour. Do it as much as possible, if you've got a friend with a dog, try it with them. Hopefully in the near future, when you recall your dog from another dog (off lead) it will return to you, because of this exercise.
HTH

A

[Teamsqueak]

Hello Marion, Archie and everyone else that was kind enough to give their advice on our problems with Georgia.

After me suffering a slipped disc in my rib area (excruciatingly painful which hurt to even breathe for several days) in January due to her extreme pulling on the lead (despite the 'dogmatic' headcollar!)and an inevitable close encounter of the 'furred' kind which resulted in her being bitten by another dog, we called in some professional help as we just couldn't quite nail her recall etc. on our own.

I'm the kind of owner who benefits from being shown how to put certain controls into action rather than reading about it and am pleased to let you know that we are attending the Silver dog obedience/training course starting in a few weeks and were able to have the instructor over last week to start the ball rolling with some 1:1 training starting with getting Georgia to walk calmly and come back when let off the lead and in the face of 'irresistable' distractions.....

In his learned opinion, she is a very good-natured dog but extremely stubborn and determined and quite 'deaf' when the occasion suits her but is not a lost cause (hooray/phew) and needs a bit more work than usual.

Walking on the lead now is already better, after only a week, using a short training lead with lots of talking to her as we go along - recall is good but we haven't faced other dogs yet

BUT:

Has anyone got any fool-proof methods to get your dog to drop rabbit corpses etc., and not eat them, when they're off-lead and won't 'leave it/drop/no' etc. until they've scoffed the lot down???? Our girl just stands there crunching the bones etc. at a safe distance until it's all gone and then comes back to me expecting some fuss and a treat (grrrrr) Have tried ignoring her and walking off, and she brings the remains with her so she can still see me - have also tried incredibly super-smelly 'irresistable' treats (NOT) to lure her away but to no avail.....

Sorry to come across as a hopeless idiot but I'm sure it's happened to others as well.

Elle and Georgia

[Richard]

hmm glad your over the worst health wise and that your feel better supported now you have 1 to 1 help.....

it is always going to be better to have someone there to actually show you.....

lol just look at mine and OB1s advice to marion on getting a router to connect to a PC....easy when your there a nightmare in the forum.

Hmmmm sotting smelly corpse.....how do you compete with that???????

you could try working on fetch or bring it......using a fake bird (pet shops do stuffed softy toy squeaky pheasents), or dummy for practice, getting the dog used to bringing back 'prizes ' to you , but the rewards will need to be good, lots of praise and excitement.

not sure what others would think but id be inclined to , say if Kodi did bring it back for me to inspect, id take it give the reward, then give the carcass back to him to play with and try the excersise again. wouldnt want to make him remember that dad tastes the best smelly toys away.

Have to say i get the parade lap with dead rabbits, but then i dont actually care that much, the last time he did a prize parade was with a pheasent, the good thing was i couldnt do anything about it as i was tied up working with a Dalmation so as the good book said i just ignored him and got on with sorting out the spotted tug boat.............he got board and came back after a bit and jioned in the heal work me and spotty were doing.which confused the heck out of me as they both wanted to be left side but turns got into an awful pickle,

not sure if that helps

Richard

[Teamsqueak]

Hi Richard

Good idea about using a "fake bird" for practice and "getting the dog used to bringing back 'prizes ' to you" - if only she would instead of eating them just out of reach every time !!! (little beast ) I think it's the gun dog in her? but then let any right-minded dog loose in a field with what the local fox has kindly left and it's hard for them to resist all the time, isn't it? Both remains AND fox pooh (YEAH!!!)

Trouble is she's also on a diet at the moment which might explain some of it?- bones aren't fattening are they , just a strange sort of natural fibre/teeth cleaner for canines?? - I just wish she wouldn't choke halfway through as she's bolting the carcass down like it's going out of fashion but still keeps going to the bitter end....

Most folks (and folkesses) around here seem to have older, well-behaved companions who trot obediently by their side.

That was another point the trainer picked up on that Georgia wasn't used to being around other dogs so that's why she goes so mad whenever she sees one. Like Archie said, she hasn't been "proofed" properly to just think 'hey - it's another dog like me' instead of "WOW! it's another DOG! I haven't seen one of them for at least 2 hours!!!!'"

We won't give up!

Thanks again, Elle and Georgia

(Back to watching Wales V France in the rugby!!)

[Marion]

Hi Ellie,

It is lovely to read your positive post and I am so glad that the one to one trainer made such a difference to your handling Georgia.

Dropping dead carcasses …hhmmm

If Shadow (as he did yesterday) found a dead rabbit the first thing he does is clamp his jaws round it. At this point, were I to command him to leave he would not obey me as the rabbit is his prey and he just doesn’t understand why any living creature should give up such a fantastic find. Instead I call him to me to walk to heel. I totally ignore the fact that his jaws are clamped round a dead rabbit. After a few paces I tell him to lie down, then to sit, then to lie down again which he obeys with precision. The reason I do this is to edge him into “training” mode whereby he becomes receptive to my commands. A few minutes pass with him walking to heel and then I casually command him to “aus” (leave) and he drops the rabbit automatically because he is focussed on me. As soon as he drops the rabbit I say a quiet good boy then throw his Frisbee for him. The rabbit has now become unimportant to him as retrieving the Frisbee takes priority. For the rest of the walk I must not let my guard down and I do keep him busy as being a Doberman his memory far surpasses that of even an elephant and he could suddenly get a whiff of rabbit and dash back to retrieve his prey.

If he is focussed on an object such as a dead rabbit but is just standing over it I then shout for him to "Platz" (down) before walking over to him and asking him to "Aus" (leave) and heel.

Its all about outsmarting them and control. I could avoid that area for the next three or four days but if we walk there again he will remember exactly where he dropped that rabbit (which by then will have been chewed at by foxes and be crawling with maggots) and we will both play the:

“I’m cleverer than you” game

marion

[Sonia]

A very interesting reply Marion and pertinent to me. I am like Georgia and have an excitable Black Lab who will be three at the end of this month. He will not give me any prize like a dead rabbit, or pheasant. I have walked for ages with him at heel with the dead thing in his mouth and the moment I just inch toward taking it away he is off. I hadn't thought of the down first and then sit and down to get them into training mode, will give that a go. Have tried the sit but that didn't work; I won't use a frisbee as am trying to calm him down about retrieving, but perhaps a nice tasty treat.

Sonia

[Teamsqueak]

HI again Marion,

Thanks for your advice re. the 'training' mode - if you think about it, it makes perfect sense! (as always, after the event...)

Haven't come across any "casualties" in the fields for the past few days but when we next do, I will try this straight away.

If only we could access all this advice when we're out and it actually happens - like the 'Hitch-hikers guide to the Galaxy' with the reassuring 'Don't Panic!' written on it's cover... ?

We drove up to the new venue for the dog training course on Sunday and they were doing agility training classes and Georgia was allowed to join in - she loved it! Contestants ranged from border terriers to a rotweiler!!!

I can see why people get so 'addicted' to running around alongside their canine companions whilst they run, jump and crawl through all manner of obstacles. Great fun! (Have to watch her whenever we go near a fence or a low gate now.... )

Thanks again everyone

Ellie and Georgia

[Teamsqueak]

Hi everyone

Happy to say that Georgia passed her Silver in the Kennel Club Good Citizen Dog Scheme course last week and we're starting the Gold one in 2 week's time. She loves being around other dogs and as the training is in a confined area (ha!) it's good for her ...... and us! The Gold deals more with her problem areas - specifically 'down stay' at a distance and walking alongside you not on a lead (ha-ha) without legging it at the first opportunity.

She's still a handful and very strong-willed but we wouldn't swop her for the world!

She still absolutely has to eat whatever she finds in the field if she sees it before we do and won't drop it for anything - what 'training mode' she says as she stands there defiantly crunching on the rabbit remains .... whilst her owners use every trick under the sun to get her to 'leave it'. Last time we did that, she ate the alternative and then ran back to finish off the rabbit!!! (who says labradors are daft?)

ATVB
Ellie & Georgia