Soiling, walking & jumping up

[Craig B]

Hi

This is my first post & I would really appreciate any help I can get in training my minature schnauzer !!

We already have 1 minature schnauzer (Taffy) who is 11. We inherited him from my fiance's aunty who was emigrating and we offered to look after him and his temperment and good behaviuor led us to keeping him.
Last year we decided that seeing as Taffy is getting on somewhat, it would be a good time to get a new pup schnauzer that could hopefully learn from his temperament and become part of our family too (this might seem daft to the more experienced dog owners but it seemed like a good idea at the time!)

We got our new minature schnauzer last year (Sooty) and like all new puppy owners, spoilt him with cuddles and love, but tried to impart strict boundaries at the start. We bought a cage for crate training, but from the first day Sooty whined constantly throughout the night to the extent we were getting complaints from the neighbours. We obviuosly couldnt continue with this so we bought him a bed and both him and Taffy sleep in beds next to each other through the night. After a few days, the playing and fighting at night stopped and they behaved well through the night - however whenever we left paper or dog training sheets next to the back door he just ripped them up. After a few weeks and as the summer approached, Sooty stopped soiling and we thought we had cracked it! Since about October though, he has started soiling in the night which is extremely frustrating EVERY morning when we get up to the "surprise". Any ideas on how we can stop this from occuring? We've tried late night walks, feeding him earlier & less, ignoring him a bit more so he isn't dependant on our presence, etc.

Second problem is him walking. Whenever he goes out he pulls, walks all over the place and will not walk with a loose lead. I have tried clicker training in the house with him, halti collars but he simply stops walking and rolls on the floor trying to rip it off (a bit embarrasing out on the streets!). Would appreciate any other ideas!!

Finally he is a nightmare for jumping up. Whenever you walk in the room he jumps up at you. I've tried pushing him down & stroking him when he stays down, ignoring him, the knee in the chest on advice (but from some of the other posts I see this isnt recommended). Again any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Craig

[Archie]

Hi,
You need to seek a professional in your area to assess your situation and give you a training regime to rectify the issues. The problem I think you have is this and I am only guessing. You lost the first battle when you let him out of the crate. SO now he knows he can manipulate. Firmness and fairness and consistency are the key and judging by what you are saying, I think your timing may be out and consistency may be a problem. Like I say this is guess work as we do not know the way you are at home. A good pro will be able to make that judgement and help with the resolutions.
Crate training is the key to stopping the soiling in the house overnight, so that is the first thing to tackle. Make it a comforatble and as enticing as possible. Put treat in the crate so he can find them and make a game out of it. The crate has to be a place of security for a dog, it has to be its den.
I know people who buy a crate and just chuck the pup in there and lock it up, close the door and walk away, so of course its frightening for a young pupster. Like all things with dogs, if it a pleasure they usually embrace it totally. As for the jumping up, only ignoring or removal will help. timing is the key and following through. Just turn round and look out the window or at the ceiling for at leat 20 minutes, do not look at him, speak, or touch. DO this, even if you have been out of the room for 30 seconds. You must not ackowledge the dog. Try this for a week. if the dog is still jumping up after a week. then try removal, if he jumps up, just grab his collar, CALMLY do not speak, or look at him and take him out the room and close the door and leave him. If he screams the house down then let him and do not give in. Might be worth telling the neighbours about the forthcoming sessions. All you've got here is a really spoilt child and he knows how to press your butons (i think)
A

[Nicola]

personally I dont like Crates, and would only use one if I was desperate (like for a dog that was destructive) as your dog is peaceful overnight I dont think a Crate is justified and sometimes with dogs you have to balance what is ideal agains what is practical.

The toiletting: Have you tried feeding him once. First thing in the morning and then not again? Then he has all day to go, and should be empty overnight. As you had this cracked during the summer I think it is a case of him being reluctant to go outside last thing when its cold and wet outside. This is how we cured our toiletting problem (our dog would quite happily sh1t in his crate and then lie in it, btw, so that blew that theory out the window for me)

Jumping up: this takes ages to stop. You have to ignore it every time. I cross my arms and turn away and only praise or touch when the bum hits the floor.

Walking on the lead: This too can take ages. I fix this by only moving forwards when the lead is slack and stopping dead when it goes tight. You wont get far very quickly, initially, so do this as a training session and not when you are about to embark on a serious hike.


I would still get professional help too though, its helpful to have someone watch your timing and your body language, and who knows, you may get itnerested in agility or flyball etc, all of which helps to create a "bond" with your dog.

[Sonia]

I see nothing wrong with crates as long as a dog isn't incarcerated for long periods of time in it. A crate can be left open and the dog will choose to go in there as he sees it as a den, so it is nothing to be feared. A compromise is to have the crate in your bedroom where the dog is used to sleeping, then problem solved!

Sonia

[Nicola]

In this case, the dog whined so badly the neighbours complained

Is it realistic to persevere, or will that send the stress levels in the house soaring and create an even worse problem?

Who know, only the owner. But I dont think suggesting a crate should be a catch all solution to the problem (I dont mean that you 2 meant it that way - but sometimes I read the replies on this forum, and "Get a crate" seems to be the stock answer)

I'll go and put my flame proof suit on now........................

[LisaBC]

I'll go and put my flame proof suit on now........................

I find my crates a tool I couldnt be without but my dogs have been trained to see them as their beds and nothing else, I have tried all sorts of beds but they get eaten in 5 mins
Boo uses his crate to look through windows and he also spends most of his time laying on top of it! the doors are rarely closed. I aggree that crates are not always an answer to problems and it would depend on the way the are uses as to how the will affect a dog. So for me I couldnt be without them but for other they may seem like cages if that is they way they are used.
Oh and Ive now cleaned that window

Boo like the high life!

[Archie]

My guy has been in a crate since the very first night he entered the house. It's been in the utility room since that day and has never moved. Likewise he goes in and out of at will and the door is never closed. We take it on holiday with us, when we are staying with friends, stopping in hotels or camping.
I suppose its horses for course really, like leads, training toys and anything else associated with dogs. Some I like, some I dislike, but if it works for you and you get the right results. Then "way to go"
A

[Archie]

By the way, "walking to heel" 5 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=e ... aa13XvCdlI

Aaah, positive re-inforcment.

A

[Sonia]

Of course a crate doesn't solve all behaviour problems, but it is a tremendous help in a lot. To solve the overnight soiling and whining, crate in owner's bedroom where the dog is used to sleeping as it whined downstairs, dog won't (or shouldn't!) soil its bed. Therefore happy owners and happy dog, in that situation No need to put your flame suit on, we all have different ideas and a good job too!

Sonia

[memphis]

I didn't want to get a crate for my pup as I didn't like the thought of it. I think we're pre-conditioned to think of it as a cruel thing to do. However after failing to crack toilet training without one, I eventually gave in and now I feel that I was being foolish to begin with.

Mac likes his crate - in fact there's been the occasional night recently when we've put the crate away due to doing house viewings (we are moving...whole host of questions surely to follow on that score...) and he's been very excited to see it getting set back up again, clambering in and out of it immediately, even before his bed has gone into it. I thought about leaving him to sleep in just his bed since he's house-trained now, and it's less hassle for us than to keep getting the crate out then putting it away again, but he was very unsettled and whining without it. Lo and behold - the crate is his sanctuary and he feels safe there. He will take himself off to the crate for a sleep quite regularly without being told to go. It's the one thing in the house that is "his" as far as I'm concerned. (his toys are all mine..i just graciously let him play with them, hehe)

Now I'm not an expert and am very much learning as I go here too, but here are some things we did to help Mac see the crate as a safe place when we introduced it. (he was around 12 weeks then, if I recall)
- Fed him all his meals in it his cage with the door open so he could go in and out as he pleased
- Gradually started closing the door for a moment and then opening it again while he was eating. Over time this was built up so we could close the door without him panicking - or even noticing for that matter!
- Taught him a 'go to bed' command and then giving him a dental stick which he loves. He only gets that when he is in his crate and no other time, so he associates the pleasant experience with the crate
-We covered the over with a big towel too so half of it is shaded over. We did this to make it more den-like as he seems to like lying under chairs and coffee tables and enclosed spaces generally.
- Making sure no-one bothers him when he's in it. No pulling him out of it to play if he doesn't want to. No giving him a row or sending him to it as a punishment. It's his safe place.
- And lastly, making sure he's had plenty of exercise and mental stimulation so he's going to be ready to sleep when you go to bed.

If you can do all these things I'm sure you'll solve the toilet training in no time. Good luck.

[LeviBevi]

hi

I am with memphis on this one

I had never used crates before now I think they are the bext thng ever!

my dogs love 'em
they actually prefer to go to their crates than sleep infront of the fire!

I recommend them - like most items of kit if used properly they are brill

if would certainly help you with the soiling
I would have moved the crate itself up to the bedroom and then slowly moved the crate out to the position I wanted it in
and this still can be done if you wanted

as for the jumping up and walking to heel (loose lead)
it is all about the consistency and praising when he is where you want him to be

good luck

[Craig B]

Thanks to all for your suggestions. Its good to get some guidance and opinions from so many!

As well, the youtube link was brill and I spent about half an hour looking at all different video clips and got some more really good tips- so thanks Archie for that one!

A quick update,- we've started ignoring and turning away when he jumps up and saying nothing when he's behaving too excitedly, and this has started working well. Every time he's sat down, at any point in the day we give him loads of "good boys" and stroking and he's started to want to do it now and seems to be expressing a much calmer manner. Another tip we found on Youtube was to prepare his food when he can't see us and wait till he's sat down quietly then putting his food down. This is teaching him that he gets fed, treats, etc when he's calm and relaxed. Early days but lets see if he carrys on improving.

As for walking I'm planning to book a few days off work, and teaching him the basics by stopping every time he pulls. Gonna take a while I think but you never know!!

As for the soiling, I'm hoping that by teaching him a calmer and more well behaved lifestyle, this should stop as its already becoming more infrequent. If not - crate training it is. I just think this will be difficult as if he sees the older dog in his bed while he's in a crate, it may be more trouble than its worth. They're both quite good with thier beds as it is.

Thanks again to everyone for your help and i'll keep you informed on any progress.